The following is a wrap-up comment from John Pudner, author of the recent series on Marquette's top 100 players of all time:
Thanks for everyone's feedback, this really was fun and I really did want the feedback, particularly the ones that referred to additional info. The one pick I really blew was Tony Smith, who it's clear should have been in this top 10. I really didn't boost Doc Rivers much for coaching, but I can certainly see Smith and Chones somewhere in the Top 10 and bumping him and Tatum just outside it.
OK, Smith was my worst pick, I really penalized him too much for his teams going 54-60, when I should have looked at it as him saving the program during those years. I know most of you seem to think McIlvaine was my worst choice, so I will make the case one last time and then shut up - because I really had and have no attachment to McIlvaine, the numbers just keep leading me back to him.
It sounds like I may be all alone in defending McIlvaine as a Top 15 to my grave, but he is the one case where every time he gets criticized and I take another look at more stats and history, I end up feeling even stronger that he is a top 10 player.
If stopping points is just as important as scoring them, his 1994 season is one of the greatest ever. He is listed as the national defensive player in the year by the NCAA book that came out in 2005. His 1994 team allowed almost as few points a game (61.7) as the pre-shotclock 1977 NCAA champs (59.4) and far fewer than Wades' final four team (69.5).
That team allowed the lowest field goal percentage (35.8%) of any team since they started keeping the stat in 1978 except for the 2000 Stanford team that had three 7-foot defensive specialist on their front line. Believe it or not, the year before when we beat Kentucky in the regular season, it was the only time in the history of MU that we have beaten a No. 1.
When going through the Top 25 individual seasons of all time we don't have any of the top 25 scoring years, or rebounding years. But Mcilvaine's 142 blocked shots in 1994 is the 22nd best season ever, and his career total of 399 is the 17th best season ever and puts him only 13 blocked shots behind Shaq. Mark Anglavar's 53.5% 3-point percentage in 1989, and Tony Miller's 956 career assists are the only other individuals to make a Top 25. (granted many of these stats weren't kept until the 1970s, but the fact that McIlvaine is so near the top of the thousands of centers who have played since then just make me credit for defensive dominance, and the team was also tops in the nation in field goal percentage in 1993 with 39.3%.
Maybe I'm also just biased because I feel like if he were playing this year, I wouldn't care if he never came down the court on offense. We could get plenty of points between James, McNeal, Matthews and Hayward, then the could just go for steals knowing that if someone got by them, McIlvaine would have their back.
**To read all of John's entries, click on the tags below.
Wednesday, January 23, 2008
MU's top 100 players: author's final thoughts
Tuesday, January 22, 2008
Marquette's Greatest Players - Top 10
We at CrackedSidewalks wish to thank John for this great series.
When some of my friends heard I was ranking the Top 100 players some laughed – thinking about the Dwyane Wade bobble head on my desk and the authentic MU Wade jersey I wear occasionally. However, when I crunch all the numbers and weight everything I have to give a slight – very slight – edge to Bo Ellis ahead of D. Wade as the greatest MU player of all time.
But it’s not just close between Wade and Ellis – there is a clean break between the greatest 9 players in Marquette history - and the other 630 players who have put on the uniform. I truly believe you could make an argument for any of the top 9 players as the greatest player in MU history – and I do not believe you could make an argument for any player from Earl Tatum 11th place on down the list. It just depends how much you weight statistics, dominance and the impact on the program. I weight all three as equally important, giving a score of 0 to 15 in each of those areas, then adding them up. Theoretically a perfect player could get a 15 + 15 + 15 = 45, but of the 640 players rated, the average score is 2 + 3 + 2 = 7 – so the average score is actually just 7 of 45 as only truly great accomplishments get the player any points:
If I had based these rankings solely on my 1st criteria, STATISTICS, then I believe you could go with George Thompson, Dean Meminger, Don Kojis or Terry Rand. The numbers those four put up are truly staggering, and match up with just about any other player in the country.
If I had based these rankings solely on my 2nd criteria, DOMINANCE, then 1st place would be a toss-up between Wade, Maurice Lucas and Butch Lee. Wade and Lucas were so good they ended up dominating the NBA, both leading teams to titles. Wade was a 1st team All-American, Lucas was 2nd team All-American in college. Wade was the most unstoppable, as even Dallas 5-on-1 defense set wasn’t enough to stop him as he took the NBA title from them. Lucas wsa the baddest man in the NBA, as he flattened Darryl Dawkins with one hit in route to his NBA title. While Butch Lee was not as dominant in the pros, he was the only MU player ever voted as the top college player in the country.
On both these counts, Ellis ranks just slightly behind the players mentioned – but he moves to the top of the list based on his IMPACT on the program. As great as his stats were, he separated himself from the other greats by leading MU to the NCAA championship game TWICE – the only two times MU has made the championship game. On both those teams, Ellis was either first or second on the team in both points and rebounds with 12.2/8.5 his freshman year when MU lost to NC State in the title game, and 15.6/8.3 his senior year when MU won the title over UNC.
If Wade or Lucas had played four years instead of two, I might move them into first – but only Ellis played four years. If any of the other top 9 players had taken their teams to two championship games, they might be in first – but only Ellis did. The photo of Ellis standing on the rim after claiming the 1977 title will always be a classic just behind McGuire crying on the bench.
The following are the ratings and descriptions of each of the greatest 10 players in Marquette history.
Key: All-time ranking among Marquette players, Name, (years played), Ratings based on statistics + domination/pro career + impact on program = overall rating.
1, Maurice (Bo) Ellis, (1974, 75, 76, 77) 13 + 14 + 15 = 42 Notes on why in Top 100: Only player on both Marquette's NCAA Runners-up in 1974 AND Champions in 1977, and was in the top 2 in rebounding AND points on both teams as both a freshman and a starter with 12.2/8.5 and 15.6/8.3 - 1st Round pick. One of only two MU players to record 1,000 rebounds (Kojis 1,222, Ellis 1,085) and 6th all-time in scoring 1,663, just over 100 behind leader 1st place George Thompson's 1,773, and they didn't start keeping track of blocked shots until 1980. And he was every bit as good the two years in between as he racked up a 101-18 record during his four years at MU – the only other starter to win 100 was Tatum at 101. You can even through in the intangible for his role in “Hoop Dreams.”
2, Dwyane Wade, (2002, 03) 14 + 15 + 12 = 41 Notes on why in Top 100: MVP of NBA Finals in 2006, 5th overall draft pick, 6,200 points in first 3 NBA years, All-Star every year after All-American in last year at MU, led MU back to final 4 in 2003 with 21.5/6.3, 71 steals, and led team with 43 blocked shots. Extra credit for being the spokesman for the University and single-handed destruction of Kentucky and Pittsburgh in NCAA, then Dallas Mavs in Championship.
3, George Thompson, (1967, 68, 69) 15 + 14 + 11 = 40 Notes on why in Top 100: All-American who got MU to the next level through 1969 - still top scorer in Marquette history at 1,773 despite playing before shotclock (and only playing the NCAA mandated three seasons), then scored 8,000 more in the pros. Only MU player ever to average more than 20 career ppg, and just misses top 10 rebounding at 688. In his three years of shattering rebounding and scoring records, Thompson led the Warriors to the NIT championship game, then the NCAA tourney, then to the Elite 8 to become Marquette's all-time leading scorer. The Elite 8 run came in a year that was supposed to be a rebuilding year, but Thompson led the team to their first Top 10 finish in the polls and backed it up with the Elite 8 run.
4, Alfred (Butch) Lee, (1975, 76, 77, 78) 12 + 15 + 13 = 40 Notes on why in Top 100: MVP of 1977 Championship team after his length of court pass to Whitehead won semi, then National Player of the year the next season before being the 10th overall NBA draft pick. The first Puerto Rican to make the NBA after he dominated the US Olympic team, and I gave him a bonus point for his dominance in the Olympics. Even though he didn't have the dominant NBA career of Wade, Lucas or Rivers, the fact that he was picked as the top player in the country in college forced me to give him a perfect 15 on dominance.
5, Dean Meminger, (1969, 70, 71) 12 + 15 + 13 = 40 Notes on why in Top 100: The 6-foot "The Dream" led the team to a 78-9 mark in his career. Top scorer (18.8 ppg) on the last team to turn down an NCAA bid, when No. 8 Marquette refused an out-of-region bid to go to the NIT where he beat Dr. J and Massachusetts, Pistol Pete and LSU and finally St. Johns in their home city of New York, then followed that up by being top scorer again on the undefeated (26-0, 21.2 ppg) regular season team that finally lost in the Elite 8. 1st Round Pick, over 2,500 NBA points. Meminger and McGuire had the best records of any MU 3-year starters in history, going an identical 78-9 mark (89.7% winning percentage).
6, Terry Rand, (1954, 55, 56) 15 + 11 + 13 = 39 Notes on why in Top 100: Leader of the most important season (1955) prior to the national title, as the 6-foot-8 center put Marquette on the map with a 22-game winning streak leading to Marquette's first ever Top 10 ranking (No. 8), which they backed up with their first ever Elite 8 finish in the NCAA behind Rand's 15.9/14.7 season. The team Rand led was so good, that the team's leading scorer and rebounder from the 1954 season, Russ Wittberger (19.4/8.5), did not even START for the championship season. The next year he led MU to the NIT while becoming the first MU player to score 20 ppg with an incredible 20.3/13.1 campaign, and drafted by Minneapolis of NBA - All-American who led the team in scoring and rebounding all three years. Second all-time with 12.7 rpg. The other two seasons the team was just 11-15 and 13-11.
7, Glen (Doc) Rivers, (1981, 82, 83) 12 + 15 + 11 = 38 Notes on why in Top 100: Rivers suffocating defense and incredible passing for 3 years at MU and 13 years in the NBA was coupled with 1,200 points at MU and 10,000 in the NBA as he was picked as both an All-American and and NBA All-Star. The only thing he lacked in my scoring was an NCAA run, but he does get a few bonus points for his coaching, most recently leading the Boston Celtics to the top record in the NBA this year. Doc's only faults are that after I enrolled at Marquette in 1983, he decided to leave for the NBA so I didn't see him play live, and he let his son go to Georgetown! (extra points for coaching Celtics). His ferocious defense led to 2.3 steals per game, the same as Wade and only slightly behind McNeal and Johnson.
8, Maurice Lucas, (1973, 74) 12 + 15 + 12 = 38 Notes on why in Top 100: 2nd team All-American who led NCAA Runners Up 1974 in both points and rebounds (15.8/10.6) as a 6-foot-8 center/forward. Had a 23-rebound game. 1st round pick, NBA All-Star with more than 12,000 career points, and averaged 20.2 ppg to lead Portland to the 1977 NBA title. Only 2 seasons at MU before draft. Basketball Digest called him one of the toughest men in basketball after he flattened Daryll Dawkins with one punch. Only the fact that he only played two years keeps him from competiting for the top. If either Lucas or Wade had played four years at Marquette, they would have been the top player in school history. They are the only two-year players to make the Top 10 list.
9, Don Kojis, (1959, 60, 61) 15 + 15 + 8 = 38 Notes on why in Top 100: Statistically the top player in school history even though at the time a 6-foot-3 player could play front line. Still, Kojas 21.4/17.1 in 1960-61 was only slightly better than his previous two seasons, he is still the top rebounder in school history. After being picked in the 2nd round of the NBA draft, scored almost 10,000 pro points and was an All-Star two of his 12 NBA seasons. If team had made a run in 1959 tourney, he would challenge for the top spot under these rankings. His career 15.1 rpg is easily tops all time, with Terry Rand 2nd at 12.7, and his total rebounds of 1222 beats Ellis' 1085 - the only other 1,000 rebound player.
10, Earl Tatum, (1973, 74, 75, 76) 10 + 14 + 13 = 37 Notes on why in Top 100: Starter for NCAA Runners Up 1974 with 10.1/5.1 as G/F, and only got better going All-American two years later before being 2nd round pick, over 2,500 NBA points. He had the best record of any 4-year player in Marquette history, as his teams from 1973-76 went 101-15 for an 87.1% winning percentge. (only backup Barry Brennan played all four of those years with Tatum).
Monday, January 14, 2008
Marquette's Greatest Players #11-26
James has started every game he has played, and can do everything a guard can possibly do with 1,095 points, 363 assists, 133 steals (2.0 spg is 6th all-time) and 263 rebounds as a guard. His freshman year was the best year of any freshman in MU history, and he was 4th place all-time in sophomore scoring with 506 points. And while MU fans seem a little tentative about getting their hopes up for the tourney after recent first round exits, the current No. 10 ranking bodes well.
If you take out the ridiculously successful 1970s, in which MU finished ranked in the Top 10 every season, we have been ranked in the Top 10 at the end of three seasons and each year the team backed up the ranking with a tourney run. In 1955, Terry Rand led MU to an 8th place ranking, and then backed it up with our first Elite 8. In 1968, George Thompson led MU to a 10th place ranking, and then backed it up with a Sweet 16 run. In 2003, Dwyane Wade led MU to a 6th place ranking and then to the Final Four. Jim McIlvaine led MU to a 17th place ranking in 1994, and then backed it up with a Sweet 16 run. If Dominic still has MU in the Top 10 at the end of this season, then backs it up with a Sweet 16 run, then he will probably end up in the Top 10 MU players of all time.
Back to McIlvaine, I had some push back from graduates of the early 1990s who viewed Damon Key, not McIlvaine, as the key to the 1991-94 teams. Certainly an argument can be made for either of the two, who were as dominant a 1-2 inside punch as you could have. Through their first three years together, Key was clearly the better player as he was All-freshman in 1991, then 2nd team all conference in each of the next years, while McIlvaine didn’t receive any awards nor match Key’s stats those first three years.
If weighing just career stats, you could put not only Key, but teammates Roney Eford and Tony Miller higher than McIlvaine. However, when measuring the impact on the program, 1994 may have been the most important year ever – and that’s when McIlvaine could not have been bigger. Remember MU had been through a DECADE of not making the tourney, and 1994 was the year they went to the Sweet 16 with a 76-63 drubbing of Kentucky.
As good as all of his teammates were, McIlvaine not only made all-conference for the first time – he was voted the MVP of the Conference. He was named the top defensive player in the COUNTRY that year, as he finished swatting his 399 career blocked shots (well over twice what any MU player has done). Only Butch Lee being ranked as the top player in the US in 1978 is more impressive – the writers, coaches and NBA scouts all judged McIlvaine to be the best of the four, taking him with the 32nd choice of the draft and soon thereafter signing him to a $34 million contract. He played in 401 NBA games, and as great as the other three were, none were drafted by the NBA or ever played an NBA game, though Miller had a great career in Europe. I reevaluated many of my draft rankings after feedback from other grads, but McIlvaine is one 7-foot-1 center I need to stay with.
While Key had better rebound and scoring stats, McIlvaine’s blocked shots are so much better than any MU player that I put him ahead – to have a guy back their blocking 3, 4, 5 or 6 shots every game means he was also altering a lot of other shots, the equivalent of scoring an extra 5 or 10 points a game.
The only problem with Ronnie Eford being so good, is that his arrival was basically the end of William Gates career (see Column 1). Certainly Allie McGuire was not only an incredible player –he graced Sports Illustrated as the guy who made MUs offense run in the early 1970s – but the fact that he was Al McGuire’s son is a huge asset.
The following are the rankings of the 11th through 25th greatest players in Marquette history. As outlined in my last column, the three numbers that are added are, in order, statistics, dominance and impact on the program. Theoretically a perfect player could get a 15 + 15 + 15 = 45, but of the 640 players rated, the average score is 2 + 3 + 2 = 7 – so the average score is actually just 7 of 45 as only truly great accomplishments get the player any points:
11, Jim McIlvaine, (1991, 92, 93, 94) 14 + 13 + 9 = 36 Notes on why in Top 100: His 399 blocked shots by this 7-foot-1 star is such an incredible number, well over twice what any other Marquette player has ever had, that when you add his 1,278 points and 673 rebounds, he challenges for the best pure stats of any player. He capped his dominance inside by taking Marquette back to the Sweet 16 appearance for the first time in over a decade, being named as Conference MVP as well as NATIONAL Defensive Player of the Year. He was a 2nd round pick and played more than 400 games in NBA after signing a $34 million contract with Seattle.- and should get bonus points for chasing a jealous Shawn Kemp out of the Seattle. The fact that McIlvaine was the best player in the conference, and the best defensive player in the country in one of the most important seasons in the history of the school for me puts him a little higher than Key, who was clearly the better player the other three years they played together.
12, Jim Chones, (1971, 72) 10 + 14 + 11 = 35 Notes on why in Top 100: Only two seasons at MU were 26-0 and 21-0 starts in which he combined for 19.0/11.7 double double, before becoming 2nd round pick, and scoring over 7,500 points in NBA in 10 seasons. Consenus All-American and considered most complete big man in country. ABA allowed underclassmen, so he jumped. 6-11 C-F. Chones and Lackey combined for a 53-5 (91.4%) win percentage in their two years there, second only two Gary Brell's 54-4 mark in his two years that overlapped the 1971 season.
13, Jerome Whitehead, (1976, 77, 78) 9 + 14 + 12 = 35 Notes on why in Top 100: His tip-in at buzzer against UNCC to send Marquette into 1977 NCAA Championship was the most important moment in Marquette history - and he was just behind Ellis with 262 rebounds and 10.5 ppg, 2nd round pick, over 4,500 points in NBA. Led the team wtih 8.3 rpg the year after the title.
14, Travis Diener, (2002, 03, 04, 05) 11 + 14 + 8 = 33 Notes on why in Top 100: Final 4 team with 11.8 ppg and led team with 184 assists, 2nd round pick, averaged over 10 minutes per game in first 2 seasons, 3rd all-time leading scorer while at Marquette.
15, Lloyd Walton, (1974, 75, 76) 9 + 13 + 11 = 33 Notes on why in Top 100: Ran offense as 6-foot guard for NCAA Runners-up dishing out 138 assists and 9.4 ppg, more than 1,000 NBA points.
16, Michael Wilson, (1979, 80, 81, 82) 12 + 10 + 8 = 30 Notes on why in Top 100: 6-3 guard had 272 steals to form one of the highest pressure defensive backcourts with Doc Rivers, leading the 1982 squad with 16.1 ppg before playing in the NBA.
17, Dominic James, (2006, 07) 11 + 13 + 6 = 30 Notes on why in Top 100: Leader of our current 10th ranked team that is just a couple of missed layups away from beating Duke and being No. 7 - 38th Marquette player to top 1000 points and could pass George Thompson if stays next year, 348 assists and 252 rebounds in first 70 Marquette games, will be in NBA next year or 2009. Has started EVERY game in his career, and was rookie of the year. One of only 6 players to average at least 2 MU steals a game since.
18, Tony Miller, (1992, 93, 94, 95) 11 + 13 + 6 = 30 Notes on why in Top 100: One of the true greats, top QB prospect who chose Marquette and brought them back as one of the top 3 point guards in the Country - breaking Kentucky's press to take them back to the sweet 16. The school's all time assist leader with 956, and played another 12 years in Europe as one of the top steal/assist guys.
19, Bob Lackey, (1971, 72) 10 + 12 + 8 = 30 Notes on why in Top 100: All-American during senior year with 15.2/8.1 as a 6-foot-4 guard, then 71 NBA games. Chones and Lackey combined for a 53-5 (91.4%) win percentage in their two years there, second only two Gary Brell's 54-4 mark in his two years that overlapped the 1971 season.
20, Bernard Toone, (1976, 77, 78, 79) 7 + 10 + 13 = 30 Notes on why in Top 100: Marquette's NCAA Champions 1977, 2nd round pick, Played in NBA. Famous for the fight he got into with Al McGuire in the locker room of the 1st Round game in 1977 in which he said McGuire had renegged on a promise to start him. McGuire said the fight helped the team regroup to win the title.
21, Roney Eford, (1993, 94, 95, 96) 10 + 10 + 9 = 29 Notes on why in Top 100: I recounting the William Gates story in my first column. While Gates nagging injury may have kept him from reaching the top, the other factor was the arrival of Eford who was just too good for Gates to get many minutes from 1993 on. Eford scored over 1,400 points at Marquette, and was extremely versatile inside or out with 150 3-pointers and over 697 rebounds, and conference freshman of year - on Sweet 16 1994 team, and 2nd in scoring with 12.5 for 23-6 team in 1996.
22, Tony Smith, (1987, 88, 89, 90) 13 + 12 + 3 = 28 Notes on why in Top 100: I got to see one of the best play, as Tony came my senior year and was All-American three years later with 23.8 ppg. Ranks in top 5 in MU history in scoring, FT and FG made, assists and steals despite not having strong teams, then became 2nd round pick, over 2,500 NBA points. It's pretty tough to top his stats over 4 years at Marquette, and the only thing keeping him from being in the Top 10 was a very weak supporting cast during his four years at MU. The team actually went 54-60 despite his incredible play those four years.
23, Aaron Hutchins, (1995, 96, 97, 98) 11 + 11 + 6 = 28 Notes on why in Top 100: over 1,400 points at Marquette, 5-10 guard kept a very balanced MU attack running with an incredible 215 assists to go with team high 14.0 ppg in 1996, followed by 172 assists and 13.4 to finish just behind Crawford the next year in ppg. Scored and his assists led to all MU starters averaging double digits on 23-8 team in 1996.
24, Damon Key, (1991, 92, 93, 94) 10 + 11 + 7 = 28 Notes on why in Top 100: The 6-foot-8 forward is 7th all-time leading scorer at Marquette, and on the incredible inside duo with McIlvaine that led Marquette 1994 team to the Sweet 16 with an upset of #3 seed Kentucky, 76-63. One argument I got when circulating an initial Top 100 list to friends was that Key was really the key to these teams, not McIlvaine, and that is a legitimate argument. If you look at the four years as a whole, Key does have the edge as he was voted to the conference all-freshman team in 1991, and then was 2nd team all-conference the next three years while McIlvaine was not recognized until 1994. The steadier performer of the incredible duo underneath. See McIlvaine for why I have him higher.
25, Allie McGuire, (1971, 72, 73) 9 + 8 + 11 = 28 Notes on why in Top 100: Ran the greatest regular season teams, between the NIT Title and the NCCA Runner-up, and was featured on Sports Illustrated cover for being, "The Man Who Makes Marquette Go." In Dick Enberg's one-man play, a Marquette player complain that Al McGuire is playing his son Allie is playing in front of him, and basically Al says of course he is biased toward Allie. Of course I'm biased too - only a few games in the NBA but he was Al McGuire's son so how can you overestimate his importance to Marquette's tradition! (bonus for his dad's coaching). Meminger and McGuire had the best records of any MU 3-year starters in history, going an identical 78-9 mark (89.7% winning percentage).
John Pudner, Journalism ’88, was Editorial Editor and then News Editor for the Marquette Tribune. He was named top sports news writer in Virginia in 1991 while working for the Charlottesville Observer and wrote a weekly column on his rankings of baseball pitchers for the New York Post before leaving journalism for a career in politics and government affairs.
Tuesday, January 01, 2008
Marquette's Greatest Players #26-50
The following is the third in a series of guest columns written by John Pudner ('88).
26th to 50th Best Marquette Players Ever
As we get to the Top 50 players in Marquette history, we are mainly talking about players who put up great statistics and were dominant enough to be drafted by the NBA or selected to All-Conference teams.
How much higher can McNeal get than his current 28th rank? Much higher. His dominance figure is an excellent “9” due to his Big East honors, including not only All-Conference but Defensive Player of they year, and his stats “10” are also great as his 2.7 steals per game is the best ever among Marquette players, better even than Doc Rivers, Dwyane Wade and the other top stealers in MU history. The only thing McNeal (and Matthews and James) need to shoot way up the list is a couple of wins in the NCAA tourney to improve his “impact” ranking from “4.”
Several other players on this list have been held back by the lack of team success during their tenures. Berce, Copa, Curry, Henry, Powell, Wardle, Wittberger and Wolf – played on teams with losing records or barely above .500, so they didn’t get the “impact” points that players on championship teams received. Of these eight, only Copa’s teams won 60% of their games (72-48) despite Copa’s 983 points, 558 rebounds and 75 steals as a 6-foot-10 center.
Already, the 9-1 start has improved MUs record while McNeal has been her to better than 70% (53-22). McNeal’s stats are much better than Gary Rosenburger (member of National Title team) and Amal McCaskill (member of 1994 Sweet 16 team) on this list, but he needs to match their success.
MU has produced two tall 3-pointer shooters on this list in Chris Crawford and Steve Novak. Crawford has left the NBA due to injury, and Novak is currently on the Rockets development team, but both were among the toughest matchups in college basketball during their time at MU.
Brian Wardle is the player most hurt on this list by the Impact Factor. Wardle’s first ranking is “10” for his great numbers including being 4th in all-time scoring. He also gets an “11” for his dominance as judged by the votes by the conference to make him all-freshman, 2nd team and 1st team in consecutive years. However, his third rating – impact – is only a “4” because his teams went only 64-54 during his tenure. Certainly it isn’t his fault that he had such a weak supporting class those four years, but the lack of wins cost him a few spots in the rankings.
Here is the list from #26 to #50:
Key: All-time ranking among Marquette players, Name, (years played), Ratings based on statistics + domination/pro career + impact on program = overall rating.
26, Amal McCaskill, (1992, 94, 95, 96) 8 + 11 + 9 = 28 Notes on why in Top 100: 2nd round pick, over 100 NBA games - Sweet 16 1994 team, 175 career blocked shots is 2nd in school history, and averaged double figures and easily led team with 266 rebounds in 1996 run to 23-8 mark. The 1994 team was so good, that I have actually ranked all four of the other starters ahead of McCaskill - as good as he was.
27, Chris Crawford, (1994, 95, 96, 97) 7 + 12 + 9 = 28 Notes on why in Top 100: 2nd round pick, 1,600 NBA points before injury, 6-foot-10 three-point shooter, 45% 3-point shooter at Marquette and constant double-double threat, freshman year on Sweet 16 team and a good scorer on very balanced teams his final two years, including a 23-8 squad in 1996.
28, Jerel McNeal, (2006, 07) 10 + 13 + 4 = 27 Notes on why in Top 100: Will become 39th Marquette player to top 1,000 points this year, and has 200 steals in first 64 games and Big East Defensive player of year, will be in NBA - if he and James can get us to Elite 8 then they are among the greatest. His career 2.7 steals per game is the best in MU history, topping Johnson (2.5) and Wilson (2.3).
29, Larry McNeil, (1972, 73) 9 + 11 + 7 = 27 Notes on why in Top 100: 6-9 forward, 2nd round pick, over 2,500 NBA points.
30, Steve Novak, (2003, 04, 05, 06) 8 + 12 + 7 = 27 Notes on why in Top 100: NCAA Final Four, 2nd round pick, has hit a few NBA 3-pointers but in developmental league now, shot over 97% from line and almost 50% on 3-pointers to become 10th leading scorer in team history.
31, Dave Quabius, (1938, 39) 11 + 12 + 3 = 26 Notes on why in Top 100: An All-American at Marquette who went onto play professionally for one of the teams that founded the NBA and co-captained the 1939 team to a 12-5 mark.
32, Sam Worthen, (1979, 80) 8 + 13 + 5 = 26 Notes on why in Top 100: 2nd round pick, 69 NBA Games.
33, Gary Rosenberger, (1975, 76, 77, 78) 7 + 6 + 13 = 26 Notes on why in Top 100: Marquette's NCAA Champions 1977 with 7.3 ppg, drafted by Milwaukee.
34, Gene Berce, (1945, 47, 48) 11 + 12 + 2 = 25 Notes on why in Top 100: Set a team record in ppg every season he played, with 13.4, then 14.7 then 17.7 per game, the last mark making him the 5th highest scorer in the country. Made the all-star team for the western half of the US before playing a few games in the NBA.
35, Brian Wardle, (1998, 1999, 2000, 01) 10 + 11 + 4 = 25 Notes on why in Top 100: 4th all-time leading scorer at Marquette with 1,690, and led Crean's first two squads in scoring at 18.8 and 16.6, adding 132 rebounds in junior year to keep MU in contention until Wade, Diener and Jackson could arrive and get us back on top! All-conference player of the year.
36, Cordell Henry, (1999, 2000, 01, 02) 9 + 11 + 5 = 25 Notes on why in Top 100: Over 1,300 points at Marquette, started 110 of 120 games in career, and a 2nd team all-conference player who played professionally overseas. He led Creans first two teams in assists with 128 and 102, before being only three behind Wade during 26-7 campaign, and his points built steadily from 9.1 to 12.9 to 15.2 to make him one of only two scoring threats during Wade's freshman and his senior year.
37, Ed Mullen, (1933, 34, 35) 9 + 13 + 3 = 25 Notes on why in Top 100: Marquette's first All-American who led the 1934 squad to a 14-3 mark then played 5 pro seasons.
38, Joe Thomas, (1968, 69, 70) 6 + 9 + 9 = 24 Notes on why in Top 100: One of Marquette's "Big 4," who scored 11 points in 1970 NIT championship win, then played 39 games in NBA.
39, Trevor Powell, (1988, 89, 90, 91) 12 + 8 + 3 = 23 Notes on why in Top 100: 9th leading scorer in school history with 1,571 points, and led team in rebounding all four years from 1988 to 1991.
40, Ron Curry, (1991, 92, 93) 9 + 10 + 4 = 23 Notes on why in Top 100: Over 1,000 points at Marquette, shot 59.7% from floor to set conference record and led team in scoring and rebounding in 1993 to lead the team to a 20-8 mark and the NCAA tournament en route to the following years Sweet 16 run.
41, Oliver Lee, (1978, 79, 80, 81) 9 + 8 + 6 = 23 Notes on why in Top 100: Over 1,200 points at Marquette and drafted by Chicago in 1981 - led 20-11 NIT team in 1981 in both ppg and rpg with 17.7/6.5.
42, Robert Byrd, (1977, 78, 79, 80) 7 + 7 + 9 = 23 Notes on why in Top 100: Drafted by Chicago in 7th round, backup on National champs freshman year.
43, Russ Wittberger, (1952, 53, 54, 55) 11 + 4 + 7 = 22 Notes on why in Top 100: Over 1,300 points at Marquette, senior year was Elite 8 team - and on the incredible 1955 Elite 8 team. After leading the team in scoring with 12.0 his freshman year while his brother Grant led in rebounding, Russ put up an eye-popping 19.4/8.5 his sophomore year but the 1955 team was so good that he actually lost his starting spot - helping the team to the Elite 8 and a 22-game winning streak as a sub and was still 3rd in scoring with 262 points to finish with more than 1,300 career points at Marquette.
44, Jeff Sewell, (1968, 69, 70) 8 + 5 + 9 = 22 Notes on why in Top 100: Star of 1970 NIT Championship with 22 points, then drafted by San Francisco in 8th round.
45, Bob Wolf, (1965, 66, 67) 11 + 6 + 4 = 21 Notes on why in Top 100: 12th on all time scoring list and drafted by Chicago of NBA in 1967, as he pumped in a 22.0 ppg in 1966 to help McGuire to his first winning season at MU, then scored another 18.4 the following year as McGuire led the team to a 21-9 mark and to second place in the NIT.
46, Scott Merritt, (2001, 02, 03, 04) 9 + 4 + 8 = 21 Notes on why in Top 100: Over 1,000 points at Marquette and helped Wade, Diener and Jackson take Marquette to final four with 10.1/6.6 for 2nd on team in rebounding, then finished career with another 11.2 in 2004 and team high 219 rebounds.
47, Anthony Pieper, (1994, 95, 96, 97) 7 + 5 + 9 = 21 Notes on why in Top 100: Over 1,200 points at Marquette - freshman year Sweet 16 he was first guard off bench as a freshman, and was a starter except when injured after that. Gave MU an excellent 2nd 3-point shooter in addition to Crawford, and averaged 11.6 and 11.2 ppg his final two seasons on a very balacned squad.
48, Ric Cobb, (1969, 70) 9 + 3 + 8 = 20 Notes on why in Top 100: The "elevator man" averaged a 10/10 on the Elite 8 team in 1969 despite coming off the bench, then led the team in rebounding again with 9.1 rpg on the NIT championship team in 1970. He was then drafted by Phoenix in 10th round before returning as an assistant coach for Rick Majerus at MU.
49, Tom Copa, (1984, 85, 86, 87) 7 + 10 + 3 = 20 Notes on why in Top 100: Played in NBA, dorm mate of mine while I was at Marquette and at 6-foot-10 and much faster than me, he was much better than me when we played against each other in gym. We underappreciate the guys who kept the program afloat after the McGuire-Raymonds-Majerus years - Copa, then Smith, then McIlvaine and finally Wardle. Without them, I don't think we would have ever attracted Tom Crean and Duwayne Wade to get back on top. Just missed 1,000 point mark, instead settling for 39th place at 983.
50, Brian Brunkhorst, (1965, 66, 67, 68) 7 + 8 + 5 = 20 Notes on why in Top 100: A few NBA games after leading the NIT runners up in 1967 with 7.8 rpg.
John Pudner, Journalism ’88, was Editorial Editor and then News Editor for the Marquette Tribune. He was named top sports news writer in Virginia in 1991 while working for the Charlottesville Observer and wrote a weekly column on his rankings of baseball pitchers for the New York Post before leaving journalism for a career in politics and government affairs.
Wednesday, December 26, 2007
Marquette's Greatest Players #51-75
The following is the second in a series of guest columns written by John Pudner ('88).
Marquette's 100 Greatest Players
By John Pudner
#51-75
In the early 1990s, I was writing a column in the New York Post opposite baseball statistical guru Bill James. I would crunch numbers to determine the best pitchers one week, then he would crunch numbers and rank the top everyday players the next. Then Bill James wrote a historical ranking of baseball players over the ages and he made a point in the book that is very pertinent to these rankings.
In addition to crunching statistics (my spreadsheet of 642 players is now up to 61 columns of info on each), you need to focus on what the people evaluating them AT THE TIME THEY PLAYED thought of them. This is the reason for the second ranking that appears by each player – the dominance ranking.
At the time the player played, did people view them as a dominant player? Did NBA scouts think the player was dominant enough to use a draft pick on him? If so, how high a pick? Did the coaches and writers of the time think the player was dominant enough to name him as an All-American? As an all-conference player (Midwestern Collegiate 90-91, Great Midwest 92-95, Conference USA 96-05, Big East 06-present), or before Marquette joined a conference as an All-Catholic player or All-Independent player?
I was able to identify 36 players were so dominant that the writers or coaches picked them as All-Conference or All-American after at least one season. One of these players, Robert Jackson, was viewed as dominant during his ONLY season at Marquette, being named 2nd team All-Conference USA in 1994. All he did in that one year was to lead the team in rebounding (7.5 rpg) and finish second in scoring (15.4 ppg) to some guy named Dwyane Wade. He gave the school it’s first dominant big man since the 1994 squad, giving Diener and Wade the inside presence they needed to go to the Final Four.
I have 226 other 1-year players on my spreadsheet of all-time MU players, and Jackson is the only one in the top 250 – he comes in as the 52nd best player in MU history. All Marquette fans should be very thankful that Robert chose to come back home to Milwaukee for his final year – I wish he could have put up all of his 1,327 points and 756 rebounds at Marquette, but he was here for the most important year.
The only player on this list younger than Jackson is one of the current three superguards, Wesley Matthews. Matthews could shoot much higher than his current #66 ranking by the end of his MU career. He has already piled up stats as a guard who can not only score but rebound, and is one of only 10 players in MU history to average at least 1.5 steals per game. Obviously if he follows his father into the NBA, or even if the team just makes at least an Elite 16 run this year, he will move way up the list.
One other reason we can’t purely rely on statistics is that there were no stats kept on blocked shots, assists and steals until very recently, and even rebounds were not recorded until the 1950s. If you just looked at statistics, you couldn’t put anyone who played below 1950 on the Top 100 list. At a time when teams rarely scored 30 points in a game, averaging 10 points a game helped your team as much as scoring 20 points a game today.
However, when you realize the 1934 team was good enough to go 14-3, and that Ed Mullen was not only named an All-American BUT also played 5 years in the pros, you realize he ranks in the top 50. Also, I do take some educated guesses at what the other stats would have been. After 1950 this is often a matter of running formulas based on typical ratios of assists to steals, and blocked shots to rebounds, etc. However, in other cases I just make a judgment call based on accounts on the player – such as Gene Ronzani, another 1930s star, who was an All-American football player, averaged double figures and according to the Marquette Tribune of the time, “Ronzani particularly had a rollicking time of it, as he roamed all over the floor, scrambling anyone in his path and usually coming up with the ball in the wildest sort of melee.” I assume he was pretty good rebounder, and I gave him 1.5 steals per game based on that description. He ranks as the 69th greatest MU player.
I wish there was someway to put our guards today with the incredible front lines from the 1950s, including the members of the 1959 team on this list. Just a few years after Terry Rand led the biggest front line to the 1955 Elite 8, Walt Mangham (#57) was joined by freshman future All-American Don Kojis to take the 1959 team back with a 23-6 record. Mangham and Kojis were called the “Kangaroo Kids,” as Mangham was the national high jump champion and the two are still 4th and 1st place all-time on MUs rebounding list.
Senior Mike Moran (#51 on this list) was the third member of one of the best frontlines the country has ever seen, as he dropped in 18.1 ppg with an unstoppable left handed hook shot – the third straight year he led the team in scoring. James McCoy (#67) added a big outside threat from the shooting guard spot. Marquette was ranked #15 at the end of the year by the UPI. After destroying Bowling Green in the opening round of the tourney they finally lost 74-69 to the same opponent we drew last year, the #3 ranked Michigan State Spartans.
A total of 54 Marquette players have been drafted by or played in the NBA, a few more have been stars in Europe or the CBA. This list is not quite as selective as the All-Conference list, but obviously it is a similar honor as being drafted and/or playing in the NBA indicates scouts who make their living on identifying the most dominance players in the country chose this player.
In between the most current guys on this list - Matthews and Jackson – and the great 1950s trio, 8 other players on this list were drafted by the NBA. The most exciting of these players may have been dunker supreme Artie “the Grasshopper” Green (#54). Also in the 1980s, the NBA drafted David Boone (#61) and Marc Marotta (#62); Jim Boylan (#53) and Marcus Washington (#59) were taken in the 70s, and Brad Luchini (#71), Dave Erickson (#64) and Mangham in the 1960s. Of course, the draft went 10 or 12 rounds back then, so it was easier to get drafted at some point than it is today.
The following are the rankings of the 51st through 75th greatest players in Marquette history. As outlined in my last column, the three numbers that are added are, in order, statistics, dominance and impact on the program. Theoretically a perfect player could get a 15 + 15 + 15 = 45, but of the 640 players rated, the average score is 2 + 3 + 2 = 7 – so the average score is actually just 7 of 45 as only truly great accomplishments get the player any points.
Key:All-time ranking among Marquette players, Name, (years played), Ratings based on statistics + domination/pro career + impact on program = overall rating.
51, Mike Moran, (1957, 58, 59) 13 + 3 + 4 = 20 Notes on why in Top 100: Over 1,300 points at Marquette, led Marquette in scoring all three years and had 670 rebounds, leading MU back to the tourney in his senior season. He put up 20.4/11.1 campaign in 1957 before Kojis arrived to take all the rebounds. Still in 1959 he used his left-handed jump shot to lead the team with and 18.1 average to finish his career with virtually every record (though Kojis would catch him in rebounds) a couple of years later.
52, Robert Jackson, (2003) 8 + 5 + 7 = 20 Notes on why in Top 100: I've found 36 MU players that were selected either All-American or All-Conference (all Independent or All-Catholic prior to joining a conference). Jackson is the lowest ranked of these 36 only because he played only one season, becoming the 2nd team center selected for the All-Conference USA team. Jackson transferred from Mississippi State to give us our only dominant big man in years and take us to Final 4 with 15.4/7.5 (2nd in scoring to Wade, 1st in rebounding), but he was the indispensable inside man to complement Wade and Diener that year. His total college career had 1,327 points and 756 rebounds.
53, Jim Boylan, (1977, 78) 6 + 6 + 8 = 20 Notes on why in Top 100: Marquette's NCAA Champions 1977 with 7.0 ppg, led team with 114 assists, drafted by Buffalo in 4th round, played overseas.
54, Artie Green, (1979, 80, 81) 7 + 4 + 8 = 19 Notes on why in Top 100: Drafted in 10th round by Milwaukee as hometown favorite, legendary leaper out of New York who was called "the Grasshopper" who was putting down two-handed stuffs back when the shoes were still terrible. While the team didn't make a run, he got bonus points for the excitement of giving MU one of their biggest recruits and most exciting players.
55, Ron Glaser, (1961, 62, 63) 12 + 3 + 4 = 19 Notes on why in Top 100: Over 1,300 points at Marquette, led Marquette in scoring all three years, leading the to the NIT in his final season.
56, Rube Schulz, (1952, 53, 54, 55) 9 + 4 + 6 = 19 Notes on why in Top 100: Forward with more than 1,000 points at Marquette, including 340 points in 1955 to finish 2nd in scoring only to the great Terry Rand on their 1955 Elite 8 team that was their first NCAA bid ever. At 6-foot-8 Rand established the high post and Schulz took the low post in a revolutionary 1-3-1 offense that noone could stop.
57, Walt Mangham, (1958, 59, 60) 10 + 4 + 5 = 19 Notes on why in Top 100: The national high jump champion stunned opponents with his ability to sky over them, while Kojis at them up on the boards. Led MU in rebounding with 10.2 per game in 1958 before Kojis (perhaps the greatest stat playing in Marquette history) arrived to dominate the glass the next year. Drafted by New York in 10th round. Also scored more than 1,000 points professionally in the ABL. Along with Kojis, were called the "Kangaroo kids.".
58, Faisal Abraham, (1994, 95, 96, 97) 7 + 4 + 8 = 19 Notes on why in Top 100: On 1994 Sweet 16 team, scored few points and defensive leader with team high 58 blocked shots for 23-8 team in 1996, followed by 84 blocked shots and team high in rebounding his senior season.
59, Marcus Washington, (1972, 73, 74) 5 + 4 + 10 = 19 Notes on why in Top 100: 9.7 ppg as guard for NCAA Runners Up 1974, drafted by Houston in 10th round.
60, Robb Logterman, (1991, 92, 93, 94) 9 + 4 + 5 = 18 Notes on why in Top 100: 6-foot-3 points guard with over 1,200 points at Marquette - senior year Sweet 16.
61, David Boone, (1986, 87) 8 + 6 + 4 = 18 Notes on why in Top 100: Drafted by Denver in 4th round after leading 1987 team in both ppg and rpg at 15.9/8.8.
62, Marc Marotta, (1981, 82, 83, 84) 8 + 6 + 4 = 18 Notes on why in Top 100: His senior year was my freshman year, drafted in 9th round by New York.
63, Bob Walczak, (1952, 55, 56, 57) 9 + 4 + 5 = 18 Notes on why in Top 100: Starting guard who scored 252 points for the Elite 8 team in 1955 was first tourney team in Marquette history.
64, Dave Erickson, (1961, 62, 63) 7 + 7 + 4 = 18 Notes on why in Top 100: Drafted by Detroit in 4th round after leading the team in rebounding and scoring in double figures his last two years, including an NIT appearance after a 20-9 season in 1963.
65, Dean Marquardt, (1979, 80, 81, 82) 5 + 7 + 6 = 18 Notes on why in Top 100: Drafted by Detroit in 6th round, a solid 6-foot-9 forward center, who led the 1982 23-9 team with 6.6 rpg.
66, Wesley Matthews, (2006, 07) 8 + 5 + 4 = 17 Notes on why in Top 100: Does anyone have a better 3-guard set than James, McNeal and Matthews? Since they started keeping steal stats in 1980, ten MU players have averaged at least 1.5 steals per game, and all three of the current starting guards are in that top 10.
67, James McCoy, (1957, 58, 59) 9 + 3 + 5 = 17 Notes on why in Top 100: After a 14.8/6.1 his freshman year, the shooting guard become the chief outside threat to loosen up defense for Marquette's incredible front line of Kojis, Moran and Mangham on the 1959 NCAA tourney team.
68, Frank McCabe, (1946, 47, 48, 49) 9 + 4 + 3 = 16 Notes on why in Top 100: Center played on the 1952 Olympic Gold Medal team that beat the Russians, after being leading scorer with 12.7 ppg his freshman year in 1949. (+3 bonus for Olympics).
69, Gene Ronzani, (1932, 33, 34) 10 + 3 + 3 = 16 Notes on why in Top 100: All-American football player helped get Marquette on basketball map in early 1930s averaging double figures (very rare back then) for 14-3 team. The Marquette Tribune, of which I was later News Editor, wrote, “Ronzani particularly had a rollicking time of it, as he roamed all over the floor, scrambling anyone in his path and usually coming up with the ball in the wildest sort of melee.”
70, Don Bugalski, (1954, 55, 56) 8 + 3 + 5 = 16 Notes on why in Top 100: The guard who scored 340 points to help lead MU to a 22-game winning streak and Elite 8 in 1955, as he ran the office that piled up 2,273 points to shatter the old mark by more than 300 points.
71, Brad Luchini, (1966, 67, 68) 7 + 4 + 5 = 16 Notes on why in Top 100: Drafted in 11th round by Milwaukee as hometown favorite, 7th in school history FT percentage at 81.1%.
72, Raymond Morstadt, (1934, 35, 36) 8 + 3 + 5 = 16 Notes on why in Top 100: On 14-3 team in 1934, then captain of 1935 team and led them in scoring.
73, Oluoma Nnamaka, (1999, 2000, 01, 02) 8 + 4 + 4 = 16 Notes on why in Top 100: Very solid rebounder Crean's first three seasons, including 26-7 campaign in 2001, and averaged 10.2 ppg his junior year.
74, Paul Carbins, (1965, 66, 67) 8 + 3 + 5 = 16 Notes on why in Top 100: Al McGuire's first two seasons Carbins was his big man, leading the team with more than 11 rpg both seasons, while scoring 976 career points.
75, Odell Ball, (1978, 79) 6 + 5 + 5 = 16 Notes on why in Top 100: Drafted by Denver in 6th round.
John Pudner, Journalism ’88, was Editorial Editor and then News Editor for the Marquette Tribune. He was named top sports news writer in Virginia in 1991 while working for the Charlottesville Observer and wrote a weekly column on his rankings of baseball pitchers for the New York Post before leaving journalism for a career in politics and government affairs.
Sunday, December 23, 2007
Marquette's 100 Greatest Players
A few weeks ago, we got a comment from a writer who had created a "Marquette Top 100 Players of All Time" list. We pursued, and invited John Pudner, a 1988 grad, to do a few guest columns for Cracked Sidewalks during December, otherwise known as "Cupcake Season."
Today, Pudner explains his math, then gives us #76-100. Tune in later this week for the next quartile, and, of course, feel free to leave comments, arguing Pudner's calculations.
Marquette's 100 Greatest Players
By John Pudner
Introduction
In ranking the Top 100 Marquette players of all time, I had to flash back to my freshman Spring semester. I thought I’d gotten pretty dominant on the rec center court. At the same time I was critical of our varsity team, which had “only” made the NIT – not enough for us fans who had been spoiled by an NCAA title seven years earlier.
My illusions of grandeur were quickly destroyed when five of the varsity players - Mandy Johnson, Robert Hall, Herb Harrison, Willie Hines and Tom Copa – called “next” game and beat us 16-0 by ones in about 4 minutes. Mandy could steal it from us before our first dribble hit the floor, and Tom (who we considered a “slow” 6-foot-10 center) was too fast to let us get our shot off. But while Mandy slips into my Top 100 at No. 94 and Copa is higher up the list, my point is that even players like Robert, Herb, Willie and the other 500+ MU players who don't make the list are AWESOME. The top 100 are truly significant in the history of our great University.
The following are the players I rank as the 76th through 100th “greatest” players in Marquette history. I will first explain the three categories in which I awarded from 0 to 15 “greatness points,” before adding the three figures to rank these players.
1. STATISTICAL CATEGORY. The first number is the “statistical” number that represents the points, rebounds, steals, blocked shots and assists the player put up at Marquette. If I had based these rankings purely on the numbers, 3-year stars Don Kojis and George Thompson would rank at the top of the list, followed closely by 4-year stars Jim McIlvaine and Tony Smith. This system may be the simplest – a center who scores 15 points and grabs 8 rebounds a game, is going to rank ahead of a center who averages 10 points and 4 rebounds over the same number of games. There are certainly many great, steady performers who would have made this top 100 if I had based this purely on stats, but I weighted two other categories as equally important.
2. DOMINANT PLAYER CATEGORY. The second number measures how “dominant” a player proved to be. Based on this category, the guys who dominated in the NBA, led by Dwyane Wade, Maurice Lucas and Doc Rivers, would rank at the top, followed by the other 27 Marquette players who went on to play in the NBA. Next by this ranking are the players who were drafted but didn’t make their NBA team, and those who played in Europe or the CBA. If the Detroit Pistons decided Dave Erickson looked good enough at Marquette to be drafted in the 4th round, then he obviously had some real ability to dominate – so he makes the list at No. 35.
3. POSITIVE IMPACT CATEGORY. The third number represents how much “positive impact” the player had on Marquette’s program, and this category requires the most explanation because it is the most subjective. Some starters from weaker Marquette teams are not in the Top 100 even though they have better stats than Terry Sanders (ranked #93). However, those starters would have been reserves as well behind the backcourt of Wade-Diener (2003). Sanders played key roles on those Final Four teams, drilling these great guards day after day in practice and filling in when they needed rests or got in foul trouble, but the only year he started was the year after Wade graduated – so he would have probably scored 200 more points if he wasn’t stuck behind Wade for two years.
Based on this third criteria, Bo Ellis is clearly the greatest player in Marquette history. Only Bo was a star on the 1974 National runner-up as a freshman AND a star as a senior on the 1977 National Championship team. He was the most important player in Marquette history. Behind him would be Terry Rand, who took a mediocre program in 1955 and carried MU to a 22-game win streak, and their first Top 10 ranking and Elite 8. After that, I give credit to players who helped get teams to the Final Four (2003), Elite 8 (8 teams), NIT title (1970), then Sweet 16 (1979, 1994), as well as players who were part of teams that won at least 2/3rds of their games.
Four other players make the list for having a positive impact either BEFORE or AFTER they were done playing. I gave points to Raymond Eckstein (#95) for what he did 60 years AFTER playing for Marquette - contributing $51 million to the school last year. Jack Nagle (#96) gets credit for coming back after his playing days to coach Marquette to its first Elite 8, and then serving as President of the CBA to put Marquette in the middle of the basketball universe. On the other hand, 6-foot-4 prep star Nick Williams (#100) gets credit for his impact BEFORE playing his first game at Marquette. Granted I’m biased living in Alabama, but I believe Nick Williams may have opened a Southern recruiting pipeline for Tom Crean by signing with Marquette after winning the Alabama state title as a junior last year. And then there is William Gates (#79) …
The greatest subjective boost the program has gotten beyond championships is from Gates.
How do you measure the impact of the movie “Hoop Dreams” against wins and losses?
Early in the movie – which Roger Ebert ranked as the best movie of the 1990s and I consider the best movie ever – we see Gates as a prep sophomore leading his team in the playoffs. When watching Gates exploding down the court, then defying gravity and twirling 360-degrees in the air to softly bank a shot off the glass, we would all assume he would end up piling up his “greatness points” for big numbers for his future statistics at Marquette and in the NBA.
And then Hoop Dreams becomes a tragedy. A knee injury and other personal developments keep Gates from his greatness on the courts at Marquette and the NBA. However, how much did it help the program for kids to watch Coach Kevin O’Neill refuse to give up on Gates, as he gives Gates’ family straight talk in their inner city home in Chicago? How much did it say to potential Marquette recruits who are so often discarded by programs to watch how O’Neill and Marquette took care of Gates, keeping him on scholarship even while going to the Sweet 16 with him unable to play in 1994?
Our friends at that other Catholic school with the gold helmets can cry when Rudy gets on the field to tackle the Georgia Tech quarterback in his last game. The best cry I get when watching a movie is when Gates in the gold Marquette jersey at the conclusion of the film while his voice over says, "People always say to me, 'When you make it to the NBA, don't forget about me.' Well, I should have said back, 'If I don't make it to the NBA, don't you forget about me.'"
William Gates had a strong freshman campaign at Marquette, starting 17 games including a 23-point performance to beat St. Louis in the tournament. When Ronnie Eford (1,400 points, 150 3-pointers, 500 rebounds) arrived on campus the next year to team up with the great Tony Miller and Robb Logterman (1,200 points) in the backcourt, Gates role diminished.and ultimately he never realized his dream of making the NBA, .
Still, his place in history will be immortalized in Hoop Dreams long after most NBA stars are forgotten, and for that he belongs on the list of the greatest Marquette players of all time.
John Pudner, Journalism ’88, was Editorial Editor and then News Editor for the Marquette Tribune. He was named top sports news writer in Virginia in 1991 while working for the Charlottesville Observer and wrote a weekly column on his rankings of baseball pitchers for the New York Post before leaving journalism for a career in politics and government affairs.
Marquette's Greatest Players #76-100
This article is a Guest Column by John Pudner ('88). It is the first installment of four.
Key:
All-time ranking among Marquette players, Name, (years played), Ratings based on statistics + domination/pro career + impact on program = overall rating. Notes.
UPDATE: Spreadsheet data can be found here.
76, Pat Smith (1967, 68, 69): Ratings - 7 + 0 + 6 = 13. Notes on why in Top 100: Holds record for 28 rebounds in one game.
77, Jerry Homan (1973, 74, 75): Ratings - 3 + 2 + 8 = 13. Notes on why in Top 100: Reserve for NCAA Runners Up 1974, but played another year then drafted by New York in 8th round
78, Todd Townsend (2002, 03, 04, 05): Ratings - 4 + 0 + 9 = 13. Notes on why in Top 100: Started all 33 games as a 6-7 forward (5.8/2.7) as key player on 2003 Final Four team, though ironically rarely started his final two seasons.
79, William Gates (1992, 93, 95): Ratings - 3 + 0 + 10 = 13. Notes on why in Top 100: Injured knee kept him from his promising career, but Hoop Dreams is still my favorite movie ever and the testimony it gave to how great the Marquette experience is couldn't have had a better advertisement. (+8 for Hoop Dreams)
80, Ron Rahn (1968, 69, 70): Ratings - 5 + 0 + 7 = 12. Notes on why in Top 100: Started ahead of Ric Cobb on the 1969 Elite 8 team.
81, Ulice Payne (1976, 77, 78): Ratings - 4 + 2 + 6 = 12. Notes on why in Top 100: Marquette's 1977 NCAA Champions with 4.5 ppg and drafted by Detroit in 9th round
82, Terrell Schlundt (1980, 81, 82, 83): Ratings - 6 + 3 + 3 = 12. Notes on why in Top 100: Draftedby Dallas in 7th round, excellent forward on Doc Rivers teams that made two trips to the NCAA.
83, Bob Hornak (1961, 62, 63): Ratings - 9 + 0 + 3 = 12. Notes on why in Top 100: Third in scoring (14.5) and pulled in 204 rebounds to finish only 7 behind NBA-bound Dave Erickson - key player on the 1963 NIT team.
84, Raymond Kuffel (1942, 43, 47): Ratings - 9 + 0 + 3 = 12. Notes on why in Top 100: Led team in scoring in 1942 and 1943, and then apparently went to war because he came back and played 4 years later.
85, Dwayne Johnson (1982, 83, 84): Ratings - 8 + 0 + 4 = 12. Notes on why in Top 100: Over 1,000 points at Marquette, including leading 1984 NIT sqaud with 14.0 ppg
86, Joseph (Red) Dunn (1922, 23, 24, 25): Ratings - 8 + 0 + 4 = 12. Notes on why in Top 100: Leading scorer on 14-3 1921 team.
87, Walter Downing (1985, 86): Ratings - 5 + 3 + 4 = 12. Notes on why in Top 100: Drafted by Los Angeles in 6th round
88, Kerry Trotter (1983, 84, 85, 86): Ratings - 8 + 0 + 4 = 12. Notes on why in Top 100: Almost saw Charles Barkley beat him up when he sat between Barkley and his girlfriend at a Milwaukee bar, scored 1,200 points. Trotter didn't have a great support staff while I was there, but he was in Parade's top 30 prep stars when he signed, and he then went on to be a two-time MVP in Europe, scoring almost 30 points per game.
89, Tom Flynn (1964, 65, 66): Ratings - 8 + 0 + 4 = 12. Notes on why in Top 100: Over 1,200 points at Marquette, and the leading scorer Al McGuire inherited in his first year as he improved the team only slightly from 5-21 to 8-18. McGuire then made him team captain in 1967 as the team had a winning mark behind Bob Wolf's 22 ppg.
90, John Cliff (1997, 98, 99, 2000): Ratings - 8 + 0 + 4 = 12. Notes on why in Top 100: 3-point shooter off bench, with 102 of 308, and was 2nd in scoring to Wardle in Crean's first season with 14.6 ppg and solid rebounding year.
91, Gary Brell (1970, 71): Ratings - 3 + 4 + 5 = 12. Notes on why in Top 100: Made all 4 shots in 1990 NIT championship win over St. John's, drafted by Milwaukee in 3rd round
92, Jerry Hopfensperger (1955, 56, 57): Ratings - 6 + 0 + 6 = 12. Notes on why in Top 100: Starting forward who scored 252 points for the 1955 Elite 8 team, the finished career with solid 9.0/7/8 in between Rand and Kojis years.
93, Terry Sanders (2001, 02, 03, 04): Ratings - 3 + 0 + 9 = 12. Notes on why in Top 100: 2.6 ppg backing up Wade for Final Four team in 2003
94, Charles (Mandy) Johnson (1982, 83, 84, 85): Ratings - 8 + 0 + 4 = 12. Notes on why in Top 100: Excellent defensive player with 253 steals.
95, Raymond Eckstein (1944, 45): Ratings - 3 + 0 + 9 = 12. Notes on why in Top 100: I couldn't find stats from the mid-1940s, but any former Marquette player who is successful enough to donate $51 million to the school gets good credit for his impact on the school.
96, Jack Nagle (1939, 40): Ratings - 2 + 0 + 10 = 12. Notes on why in Top 100: Played two years, then coached Marquette to its first Elite 8 in 1954, before eventually leaving to run the CBA and scout for NBA teams.
97, Pat O'keefe (1954, 55, 56): Ratings - 7 + 0 + 4 = 11. Notes on why in Top 100: Scored 161 points off the bench as one of Marquette's "Big 8" Elite 8 team in 1955.
98, Jim Kollar (1958, 59, 60): Ratings - 8 + 0 + 3 = 11. Notes on why in Top 100: I wish they had recording assists in the late 1950s, and Kollar ran the offense by feeding the ball into the incredible front line of Kojis, Moran and Mangham, or kicking it out to McCoy for the jumper. He did add 251 points himself, and led the team with a 77% mark from the line, but was mainly the distributor.
99, Paul Sokody (1937, 38, 39): Ratings - 8 + 0 + 3 = 11. Notes on why in Top 100: Led team back to a 14-5 mark in 1938 by leading team in scoring.
100, Nick Williams (2008): Ratings - 2 + 0 + 9 = 11. Notes on why in Top 100: I live in Alabama so I'm biased toward Leflore's 6-foot-4 prep guard Nick Williams (Mobile, AL), who is coming to MU next year and was just named the 1st player of the week by the Press-Register for averaging over 27 ppg in 3 games including a double-double. The next great Golden Eagle I hope! Gets a bonus for coming to MU after leading Bama to a state title, and being on track for another after a 120-22 win to improve to 6-0 this year.
