"My rule was I wouldn't recruit a kid if he had grass in front of his house.
That's not my world. My world was a cracked sidewalk." —Al McGuire

Monday, April 14, 2008

Tyshawn Taylor wants out

Adam Zagoria (as always in New Jersey) breaks the news........After meeting with new head coach Buzz Williams last Friday, Tyshawn Taylor still wants his release from Marquette University.

Taylor has not eliminated MU -- but coach Bob Hurley indicated that a dozen other schools have inquired, and Taylor wants to take a few more visits before deciding. Hurley cited Buzz Williams' inexperience as a head coach, and the logjam in the MU backcourt as primary factors in seeking the release.

Hmmmmm. On the backcourt 'logjam' - - the backcourt was much more of a logjam back in October when Taylor verballed to MU, something he acknowledged and was apparently unconcerned with when asked. Since that time, both Nick Williams and Scott Christopherson have exited the program.

Of course, Taylor's profile improved dramatically this past season when he exploded on the national scene as a vital cog on the top team in the country. It's no wonder that many other programs are now fawning over Taylor -- and that he's willing to reciprocate that interest.

As for Buzz Williams' inexperience as a head coach.....well......that sounds like the primary driver here.

26 comments:

jce said...

Let him go. He doesn't want to be here.

Richard said...

Congratulations to the folks who decided Buzz Williams, a man with little big time experience outside of 2 years at Texas A&M and 9 months at Marquette, was a good idea.

Why? Why? Why? To keep our recruits? Two JUCOs? Really?

I hope you're content with this decision because it sure smells like a complete DISASTER to me!

Packer Pat said...

Richard Happy Monday - Please go somewhere else. We do not need you on this board. If you're looking for someone to blame his name is Hurley and he is just looking out for this kid.
It is what it is guys, get over it!!!!!!

Even if we get one juco transfer for next year and Zero recruits we still make it to the sweet 16 with McNeil. By then we'll be back on track, buzz will have proven he can coach and well likely get the 2009 kid from Racine. Others will follow from there.

Tasty Burger said...

Wow you sure sound like you know what you're talking about. I'd like to meet this "McNeil" that can magically take a team of guards to the Sweet 16. Its going to take more than a few years for this team to recover IMO. Once the big 3 are gone I don't see them making the big dance for a while, unless Buzz can use his amazing recruiting skills to make someone decent want to come to a mediocre Big East school.

Richard said...

Hey Packer Pat --
Get your head out of the sand. If Jamil Wilson from Racine does NOT attend Marquette, do you understand that we may find ourselves at the bottom of the Big East? Not "near" the bottom. "AT" the bottom.

But you're OK with riding the entire basketball program on the recruitment of a single high school kid?

Why would you blame Bob Hurley for this? Why in the WORLD would he tell his kid to go to Marquette to play for a coach he doesn't know and who has a record that's basically indefinable. What does a Buzz Williams tell Bob Hurley about his plans? That he's a "winning" basketball coach? That he spend 18 months working for Billy Gillespie and 9 months working for Tom Crean? Hurley is looking out for an 18 year old kid. He doesn't care about Marquette, nor should he.

Packer Pat said...

Burger-McNeils the guy who had 30 against Stanford. If he's back we are Sweet 16 bound. We'll get a juco big man or two

Richard as I said it is what it is so either support Buzz or explain how all this negatively will help the program. We don't need this here.

My point was don't blame Buzz or Marquette for TT thinking about his options. Hurley is looking out for his player which I had said. I just wanted you stop yapping about a situation we all some coming, and he still could come to Marquette

I realize there's an issue next year for recruits but our actual team will go to the sweet 16.
Can't guarantee anything but saying we'll be at the bottom of the BE is a stretch.
We have some challenges ahead but we will be fine.

E said...

Geez, this isn't Lew Alcindor. If the kid wanted to play for Crean, and Crean is not there, then let him go somewhere else. I don't think you can blame Hurley, and I don't think you can blame Buzz. Go ahead and blame Marquette and the Administration, but the future of the program isn't predicated on this one guard.

Championships Matter said...

Simple, don't give it to him.

Look, when we take jobs, there's no promise the man or woman who hired us will be there throughout our career -- or even when we get there.

The guy did not make a promise to Tom Crean. He made it to Marquette University. Where I come from and this may be old fashioned, we live up to our promises. If we say we're going to do something, we do it.

What happens if Tyshawn is talented and fortunate enough to make the NBA. And he signs a contract. And the head coach and the general manager are, well fired. Does it void the contract?

NO! And Bobby Hurley knows this. Marquette needs to play hardball and Tyshawn needs a lesson in real life.

Besides, he might just like it here!

Tasty Burger said...

Packer Pat -
I know who Jerel McNeal is, and I know he is capable of big games, but he isn't good enough to carry a team with a very mediocre frontcourt very far. You just can't win when you have a single player over 6'8". You can't possibly think this team is one of the 16 best in the country. Some juco big man won't be able to even contain players like Hasheem Thabeet or Down Syndrome Harangody. Please stop being overly positive its making me sick. I'm not being pessimistic just realistic.

Packer Pat said...

Tasty, agreed I'm a little too positive but the recruiting period just started and we've had the coach one week. People are way too negative and there's not much TC bashing about how he left us high and dry.

and your comment "You can't possibly think this team is one of the 16 best in the country" I'm not saying we'll be ranked top 16 all year but we will win two games in the tourney and make it to what some call the Sweet 16. Something TC has been to one time if I recall correctly.

Well find some big guys and they'll blend in with our four core guys.

"If you let him build it a Buzz will come"

Gene Frenkle said...

PackerPat, You are drinking the Fr. Wild kool-aid.

First of all, the recruiting season didn't just start. Taylor and Williams were commitments from last fall.

And as for Championships Matter and his naive view of college recruting, I'd love to live in your fantasy land of kids and coaches living up to their commitments. But, it doesn't happen today. It's not reality and hoping it will change will not make it so.

Let me ask many of you this: If you were Hurley and Taylor's coach, someone who is supposed to be looking out for his well being as a responsible adult whose forgotten more about hoops than Buzz knows, would you really be telling your kid to "honor your commitment and attend a university that will have a coach with little experience"? If you say yes, you are either lying or not looking out for your kid's best interest.

Look, this sort of thing happens across the country. And if you think kids choose 'schools' over 'coaches', that is the case with the time-tested programs like UNC, Kansas, Duke, etc. But it's not the case with MU.

AGAIN, JUST BECUASE WE LAMBASTE THE DECISION TO HIRE BUZZ DOESN'T MEAN WE ALL WANT HIM TO FAIL!

That said...looks like we are in fact going to lose our top two recruits for next season, all in the name of hiring a coach with little coaching experience.

So much for "continuity"! Nice work Steve! And kudos for overpaying Buzz by about half a million and covering his $300k lawsuit with New Orleans. Quite a commitment to make to an unproven recruiter whose sole experience is recruting for Gillespie and for Crean (quite the difference from recruiting for Buzz).

hards7 said...

"PackerPat, You are drinking the Fr. Wild kool-aid.

First of all, the recruiting season didn't just start. Taylor and Williams were commitments from last fall.

And as for Championships Matter and his naive view of college recruting, I'd love to live in your fantasy land of kids and coaches living up to their commitments. But, it doesn't happen today. It's not reality and hoping it will change will not make it so.

Let me ask many of you this: If you were Hurley and Taylor's coach, someone who is supposed to be looking out for his well being as a responsible adult whose forgotten more about hoops than Buzz knows, would you really be telling your kid to "honor your commitment and attend a university that will have a coach with little experience"? If you say yes, you are either lying or not looking out for your kid's best interest.

Look, this sort of thing happens across the country. And if you think kids choose 'schools' over 'coaches', that is the case with the time-tested programs like UNC, Kansas, Duke, etc. But it's not the case with MU.

AGAIN, JUST BECUASE WE LAMBASTE THE DECISION TO HIRE BUZZ DOESN'T MEAN WE ALL WANT HIM TO FAIL!

That said...looks like we are in fact going to lose our top two recruits for next season, all in the name of hiring a coach with little coaching experience.

So much for "continuity"! Nice work Steve! And kudos for overpaying Buzz by about half a million and covering his $300k lawsuit with New Orleans. Quite a commitment to make to an unproven recruiter whose sole experience is recruting for Gillespie and for Crean (quite the difference from recruiting for Buzz)."

QUOTED FOR TRUTH AND EMPHASIS.

couldn't have said it better myself.

You may think we will be 'alright', but this is about appearances. If everyone sees you as a weak school, you aren't going to attract the talent. No talent means no wins... What follows is the de-evolution of Marquette Basketball.

Gene Frenkle said...

Confucious say:

Perception = Reality

Championships Matter said...

Look, at the end of the day, Marquette has to stand for something. Tyshawn doesn't HAVE to come here. Nobody is holding a gun to his head and saying, "Marquette or else."

He has the option of sitting out a year and going anywhere he wants. Period. He can go to Wisconsin for all I care. Just do what his agreement says.

In life, contracts are enforced. Tell the poor guy or gal with a sub-prime loan yielding 5% more than last year. Using the Tyshawn theory, life changed and they didn't know their loan would be that painful, so thet don't have to pay... right?

The world doesn't work that way.
If that contract was with an Army recruiter and the President changed, would the soldier-to-be be discharged from his commitment? I doubt it.

That's the real world folks. Because Tyshawn is highly sought after basketball player doesn't mean the rules are different. Marquette ought to tell him, "you are going to give Buzz a try if you intend to play Division 1 basketball next year."

As I say, he might like it here. We're all such loveable fans!

Championships Matter said...

One other point, Tyshawn is months away from adulthood. Act like it!

Gene Frenkle said...

Really? Contracts are enforced, hmm? So if that's the case, where's Tom Crean right now Champs?

Oh that's right. He walked out of his contract worth millions to make millions elsewhere. So naturally, the solution is to forget about what that one "adult" did, and instead, punish the "soon-to-be-adult" that wanted to play ball for said "adult".

No. That makes no sense and it's unfair of the NCAA to do that.

Again, try just for a second for some empathy and put yourself in his and Hurley's shoes.

You mention contracts too. Well, lets say you bought a car, for instance. You have a contract to own that vehicle and you make monthly payments to fulfill that contract.

What if, in the middle of your five-year plan for your 2008 Ford Mustang, Ford suddenly showed up and said they were taking that away and giving you a used '97 Taurus. Would you stand for it? After all, you did sign a contract with Ford, didn't you? I mean, sure, the Taurus is very different than the Mustang - it's not as flashy, might be dependent over the long haul - but it's not a Mustang.

But...your contract was Ford and they make both vehicles. In your world, I guess you just bite the bullet and be an adult and keep paying Ford.

Championships Matter said...

Uh Gene -- you sound like a liberal arts major or something.

The automotive circumstance you described has no basis in contract law. Making Tyshawn honor his commitment does. If you do not like this circumstance, end the NCAA's monopoly on Division 1 college basketball.

As for Crean, he was released from his contract because he had a buyout clause in it. That was a contractual term that was negotiated between Bill Cords and Crean with Cottingham.

The problem again is the buyout was not sufficiently painful to prevent Crean from doing what he did.

I stress again, no one is saying Tyshawn HAS to play basketball at Marquette next year. What we are saying is that if he chooses to go elsewhere, he will not play Division 1 basketball next year.

That's his agreement.

jce said...

championshipsmatter...I don't know if you supervise others for a living, but I know that if I hired someone who subsequently signed a contract, and then decided it wasn't best for him, I would definately let them out of it. (Look at Billy Donovan and the Orlando Magic last year.)

It serves no one any good if TT doesn't want to be here to force him to come.

Championships Matter said...

Here's the rub. Apart from the contract, how much of Tyshawn's change is due to our situation and how much is due to Hurley wanting to be a kingmaker.

There's nothing to lose here by torching Hurley and compelling Tyshawn to honor his commitment. I think we should try. It won't hurt anything and sends a strong message -- you make a promise, you keep it.

This whole crap about letting Tyshawn go because Crean left is just nonsense. Unless the grant-in-aid is a personal services contract with Tom Crean, Tyshawn signed with MU.

One would hope he signed,in part, ecause he believed in something Marquette is doing educationally. Probably not (and that's something you can argue is naive), but one would think that he made his decision based on coach, school and his own future. Two of the three haven't changed and hopefully our Buzz can minimize the coaching issue.

Alex said...

Why divide Marquette nation with all the criticisms of Buzz Williams? Shut up. Get some perspective and just shut up. All this hand-wringing over one recruit is absolutely ridiculous.

How many comments are there praising Buzz for keeping the Erik Williams commit? None. Erik picked Buzz over Crean. Comments? Praise for Buzz? No. None. You guys are getting to be really pathetic.

And, what about Butler, who appears primed to picked MU over Kentucky? He'll have 3 years of eligibility left. Any praise for Buzz there? Anything? No. None.

Please, just shut up. Frankly, the comments on this website regarding Buzz Williams have been so outlandishly thoughtless that it makes me question the legitimacy of this site as having any meaningful, thoughtful analysis on anything re: Marquette.

James said...

Marquette laid a giant egg with the hiring of "Buzz" and now the blocks are beginning to tumble. Granted pre-pre-season rankings mean nothing, but its a little dissappointing that we're going to return our star (well supposed to be star) trio of guards and some people (Andy Katz) doesnt event think we're deserving of a Top 25 spot. We had a great opportunity to have the spot light with commenators glowing about our coaching lure/hire. Instead we laid a massive egg. Congratulations Providence on your new hire, the guy Marquette should have had the brains to look to.

Championships Matter said...

Lets make one thing clear -- I am not criticizing Buzz in my beliefs about Tyshawn. Marquette made its decision and now we decide whether we keep going to basketball games or not.

My bet is even the most avid gripers in here will be at the Bradley Center for the fall and winter.

I believe the best way Marquette can support Buzz is to make people live up to their commitments. Tell Tyshawn he'll like us, even Gene and PackerPat. In fact, he'll even love some of us. But if we let him out of the contract, we'll never know.

Tyshawn, I'll bet you will look great in blue and gold next year.

Gene Frenkle said...

"One would hope he signed,in part, ecause he believed in something Marquette is doing educationally. Probably not (and that's something you can argue is naive), but one would think that he made his decision based on coach, school and his own future."

Give up the Taylor stuff please. It's sad. I don't want him to go, but that's the way college sports works when high-profile coaches leave. It's different for all players (see Williams staying at MU).

His coach and Taylor both thing it's in their best interest to look elsewhere.

As for Buzz keeping Williams, just read that and commented. Solid work. Now, as long as he can get another top 100 guy to come here (preferably not from the south, as he needs to make inroads in the midwest and east coast), that would be great. Then again, I'm not gonna gripe if he gets any 4-star or top-100 recruit. It's a nice start. And keeping Otule is key too.

I think people are excited about this coming year. That has never, ever been the point about the criticism of Buzz. It's where people think this program will be in two-four years under Buzz that has people skittish...and sorry, but rightfully so based on his lack of track record.

We all hope for success. Again...we all hope for success, but we call it like we see them.

Excuse me while I get back to my liberal arts studies.

Championships Matter said...

Go get 'em Gene. I agree with you on Williams and here's hoping more;s to come.

Call me when you complete your Sociology degree! The Quickie Mart is calling!

jce said...

championshipsmatter.

I have no idea if TT wanting to leave is because he truly doesn't want to come here or if it is because his coach doesn't want to come here. Hell, I don't know if it really was his choice to come here in the first place.

But that isn't relevant to me. If he doesn't want to come here, forcing him to either sit or come here when he really doesn't want to, won't help anyone. It won't help MU...it wont help him. I know you want to take a stand here, but taking a stand on this is rather foolish in the long run.

The Chuter said...

"Vital cog"??? This kid has athletic ability, no question, but my dead grandmother has better range on her jumpshot than this kid.

MU should let him go, but VERY slowly. This is clearly all about playing time, and with DJ back, Hurley wants another option. Too bad: then he shouldn't have signed his name.